Author Topic: Can't deploy speedbrakes  (Read 26568 times)

rick

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 10:16:53 PM »
So this aircraft is truly amazing.  Well done!!  Hansi, I am having the same problem.  I've sent you a PM requesting your assistance with this speed brake issue.  Thank you!

Cheers,

Hansi

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 02:43:24 PM »
Hi Rick,

So this aircraft is truly amazing.  Well done!!  Hansi, I am having the same problem.  I've sent you a PM requesting your assistance with this speed brake issue.

got it! But you forgot to include your e-mail address  ;)

Now I have sent you a PM!

Cheers,

Hansi

jpfil

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 08:03:17 AM »
Hi,
I am not perfectly bilingual so I cant find the exact words to qualify your "chef d'oeuvre".
I have the same problem of non-deploying speedbrakes by keyboard or joystick.
Can you help me please?
Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 06:40:05 PM by jpfil »

Hansi

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 02:39:31 PM »
Hi,

Hi,
I am not perfectly bilingual so I cant find the exact words to qualify your "chef d'oeuvre".
I have the same problem of non-deploying speedbrakes by keyboard or joystick.
Can you help me please?
Thanks.

as a first step, please check, if the Sabre SP1 update pack is installed correctly: If the CAB-file (in the PANEL directory) origins from the SP1, also the PANEL.CFG file must be from there. So, extract the PANEL.CFG from the SP1 zip-file and place it in the PANEL directory.

Let me know if this fixed your problem,

Hansi

jpfil

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 04:23:18 PM »
Thanks,
I downloaded the "F-86E/F Sabre Service Pack 1", but for FS9, and it's work!
Great job!

SkipperMac

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2010, 05:20:01 PM »
Thanks for a SUPERB aircraft. As others have said, it's at least equal in quality to much payware, and might even stop me flying low and slow between the trees!
My spoilers are working correctly, either with the / key or mapped to a button or axis on a joystick. What I can't seem to achieve is mapping to the actual switch on the throttle which allows partial deployment of the spoilers. Is this possible? I'm using FSUIPC (highly recommended for ALL joystick assignments!).
Regards,
SkipperMac
SkipperMac

keatles

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2010, 03:11:47 AM »
What I can't seem to achieve is mapping to the actual switch on the throttle which allows partial deployment of the spoilers. Is this possible?

Hi SkipperMac, and welcome.

I am sure Jan or Hansi will confirm that it is NOT possible. I have been trying for some time (I use only FSUIPC to control my X52), but the only possible workaround is to use the speedbrake control on the Throttle Lever, which can be moved with the mouse. It has three positions: IN-HOLD-OUT. I also find that when I try to use the switch, the emergency speedbrake lever starts moving randomly!
I still have not been able to figure out how to control it with FSUIPC - much experimenting has taken place!

I expect one of the gurus will give a more complete answer, but that is my understanding of the topic.

Cheers
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 04:09:17 AM by keatles »
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a poor memory.

SkipperMac

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2010, 09:25:30 AM »
Thanks Keatles.
I'm suspicious it might not be possible which will be a pity. The spoilers work perfectly for me - I just find trying to use the throttle switch too awkward as I don't use any head tracker type attachments (yet  ;) ). I may have to just settle for in-or-out spoilers mapped to an old joystick's throttle slider  :( which I suspect is unrealistic as the spoilers are clearly meant to be variable.
I'll still enjoy flying the F86 though!
SkipperMac

Hansi

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2010, 01:34:07 PM »
Hi SkipperMac,

Thanks Keatles.
I'm suspicious it might not be possible which will be a pity. The spoilers work perfectly for me - I just find trying to use the throttle switch too awkward as I don't use any head tracker type attachments (yet  ;) ). I may have to just settle for in-or-out spoilers mapped to an old joystick's throttle slider  :( which I suspect is unrealistic as the spoilers are clearly meant to be variable.
I'll still enjoy flying the F86 though!

Keatles is correct, you cannot attach a joystick axis to the spoiler position. The main reason is, that on the F-86, the spoiler and the speedbrake are two different things: The speedbrake position corresponds to the animation (the deflection of the speedbrake you see when looking at the aircraft), while the spoiler position is an areodynamic variable, which varies with altitude. At high altitude, a much smaller spoiler percentage is mapped to a certain speedbrake position (to simulate the much smaller drag created by the speebrake compared to the higher air density at seal level).

Since the speedbrakes are moving quite fast (with normal hydraulic pressure in flight), I often wondered that it must have been difficult to exactly set an intermediate speedbrake position, the pilot has to move the switch quite rapidly from OUT to HOLD, making it hard to set the desired position. But know from Dudley Henriques, RW Sabre pilot and our SectionF8 chief test pilot, that you normally do not need to set intermediate speedbrake positions, the pilot just opens or closes them, the airspeed (ie. during final approach) can be controlled much better with throttle. So, if you have FSUIPC, you can attach the panel events SPOILERS_ON and SPOILERS_OFF to a three position switch, or SPOILERS_TOGGLE to a button. Perhaps I can change the programming in future versions to make the speedbrake switch go to HOLD after receiving a SPOILERS_OFF event when the speedbrakes are currently moving. Then, intermediate positions would be possible with properly programmed joystick switches, too.

Cheers,

Hansi

SkipperMac

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2010, 03:17:29 PM »
Hansi, thanks, that's very helpful. If in the real world a pilot was unlikely to be setting an intermediate speedbrake, then that's good enough for me and I'll continue to work with the brakes out or in - as real as it gets! That also makes sense when I think about it as there is no speedbrake gauge which would have told the pilot what percentage was deployed.
Thanks again!
SkipperMac

Hansi

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2010, 02:41:34 PM »
Hi guys,

good news!  :P

after reading your posts yesterday here at the forum, I thought I give it a try right now to reprogram the speedbrake code, so that it is possible to stop the speedbrakes at an intermediate position using a joystick button.

Well, it was easier than expected and only minimum changes were required. Of course, it still is not possible to operate the speedbrakes with a joystick axis, but when the two panel events SPOILERS_ON and SPOILERS_OFF are attached to a joystick switch or button, the speedbrakes can now be stopped at any time. However, FSUIPC is required for this to work: FS9/FSX only allows to assign the event SPOILERS_TOGGLE to a hardware button, to do so with SPOILERS_ON and SPOILERS_OFF, FSUIPC is needed (at least I don't know how to do it without FSUIPC).

It works as follows: My joystick has several three-position switches which can be moved up and down, and when released, the switch goes back to center position. I used such a switch and assigned SPOILERS_ON when it is moved up and SPOILERS_OFF when moved down. When the switch is moved up, the speedbrakes begin to open and the speedbrake switch on the throttle stick moves to OUT position. Moving the switch down, stopps speedbrake movement and the speedbrake switch goes back to HOLD (NEUTRAL). When the joystick switch is moved down again, the speedbrakes start to close (switch position IN). In short: SPOILERS_ON is setting the throttle speedbrake switch from HOLD to OUT or from IN to HOLD, while SPOILERS_OFF causes the speedbrake switch on the throttle grip to either move from OUT to HOLD or from HOLD to IN.

The event SPOILERS_TOGGLE is not affected in any way, so that the speedbrakes can still be operated using the keyboard key '/' like before.

If you have FSUIPC installed to program your joystick and if you would like to try out the updated gauge, please send me a private message with your email address. You then will receive the updated gauges and a new PANEL.CFG. Would be interesting for me to see, if it is working well with your Sabres, too, so that we can keep this modification in the gauges.

Cheers,

Hansi

sun444

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2010, 11:17:57 AM »
Thanks Hansi for sending me the new gauge and the panel.cfg.

I programmed one rocket switch with Spolilers On and Spoilers Off.

My results:

The action depends on the position of the emergency speedbrake lever in the VC. If this lever is in the forward position the rocket switch acts as a simple toggle with speedbrake in or speedbrake out, no stopping in between.

If the lever is shifted backwards then you can use the rocket switch to stop the speedbrake at any position like it is supposed to be...
but you have to press the switch twice to deploy and twice to retract the speedbrake (from start or end position).

So far my experience at the moment.

sun444

Hansi

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2010, 01:33:07 PM »
My results:

The action depends on the position of the emergency speedbrake lever in the VC. If this lever is in the forward position the rocket switch acts as a simple toggle with speedbrake in or speedbrake out, no stopping in between.

If the lever is shifted backwards then you can use the rocket switch to stop the speedbrake at any position like it is supposed to be...
but you have to press the switch twice to deploy and twice to retract the speedbrake (from start or end position).


Hm, normally it should be the other way round, the speedbrake switch on the throttle grip should override the emergency lever  ??? ...
But if you toggle the joystick switches, you can see the speedbrake switch on the Sabre throttle grip move in the desired direction (IN - HOLD - OUT), or is that not working correctly either?

It used to work fine here at my end, but I'll repeat my testings: I tested with different emergency lever positions and everything seemed to work as it should.

Anyway, thanks for your testings! Perhaps the coding can still be improved...

Cheers,

Hansi

sun444

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2010, 02:03:49 PM »

But if you toggle the joystick switches, you can see the speedbrake switch on the Sabre throttle grip move in the desired direction (IN - HOLD - OUT), or is that not working correctly either?


Yes it does. So if the position is IN and I use the switch "SPOILERS ON" once it moves to the HOLD position and so the spoilers are still in. So I have to use "SPOILERS ON" a second time to shift from HOLD to OUT and vice versa.
It doesn't bother me at all because I only use fully deployed or fully retracted spoilers.
Greetings
Hans-Jörg

Hansi

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Re: Can't deploy speedbrakes
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 12:23:45 PM »
Hi Hans-Jörg,

Yes it does. So if the position is IN and I use the switch "SPOILERS ON" once it moves to the HOLD position and so the spoilers are still in. So I have to use "SPOILERS ON" a second time to shift from HOLD to OUT and vice versa.
It doesn't bother me at all because I only use fully deployed or fully retracted spoilers.

yes, if you leave the switch in position OUT after deploying them, you must use it twice when retracting. But if you move the switch to HOLD (as advised on the real thing) once the speedbrakes are out, only one SPOILERS_OFF is needed later when retracting them again.

Cheers, and thanks for your valuable feedback!

Hansi